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Rickie Lee Jones: 2000
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I guess it's my nature to think, "How can I rise?" It's not my nature to roll over, even though I might complain and cry and be sorrowful. It's just my nature to go, "How can I use this to get back up where I want to go?"
So then that happened. Last year my mom had a stroke. And I think taking care of my mother, being so close that she almost died, looking at the people in my family, thinking of my whole life, my dad's life, my grandfather's life, ten thousand years of people who procreated to bring me here. Watching my mother. And you know, when she tries to talk, she can't say it, and she laughs. Seeing my mom laugh made me go, "What a wonderful world. What a wonderful human being I grew up with." I always loved her, but I didn't realize how wonderful she is. Look at her laugh at herself.
And I guess it made me turn and go, "Okay, no more fooling around. No more feeling sorry for your self. There's a whole world of people who need my help. They need my help to help them find a hospital for their parents. They need my help with the poem I write. My daughter needs my help, my mother needs my help. And I have unlimited energy to give till I die. Cause once you start giving, you have more. That's just how it is. You don't give, you don't have anything to give. You give, you've a lot to give.
And seeing my mother so close to death made me realize I'm going to die. And some day all these things I won't have done. And I'm still here, I'm still young, I could still do them. So maybe it was like It's A Wonderful Life. And I got to come back. With great joy and happiness. And I'm not sure what happened, but I do feel kind of like him running through [laughs] with Zuzu's petals in my pocket.
And I don't know if that's how it will be from now on or if it will subside a little. But I feel the capacity to be part of a larger thing going on as well as helping my career. Redeeming my career. Because I think I'm a great writer and an important character in American art. And I've had my career described as a "downward spiral." And I know I'm a great writer, and I don't want to be tossed away. And have my history rewritten by VH-1 as a footnote. That's not true. And those kind of things, maybe people think they don't matter to people, but they do.
And I think that kind of stuff that hurt so badly might have made it hard for me to get up. It did make me finally decide that it doesn't matter. In the end, you know what you do. You know what you gave, you know what you did. You do need love from the outside, let's face it. If I made the record, and nobody wanted to work with me, I wouldn't have this power that I have. But getting love from people, and people saying, "It's so good to see you working. You sound great. Great song." Then you feel part of the world. People need that.
This album has a lot of joy in it. Even in songs when you're urging people to wake up and see what the world is, like "Tell Somebody," it's a joyful song. With a gospel feel.
Because the idea is to bring them in. Not to yell at them or preach to them, but to bring them in. I was thinking about those guys - you know - Marvin Gaye, Curtis Mayfield. This is what they'd say. Curtis Mayfield would be overtly political, with his melody playing. And I just went, "Yeah, it's cool, I'm gonna go ahead and do it." Got the right groove, we can say whatever we want.
"Ugly Man" also has a great groove, and a great chord progression. Did you write that on guitar?
Yeah. Definitely. It's really easy. That little progression, I think I've been playing with it for a while. I like it a lot. I'm not sure how long, but it's been floating around for a while. And when that trumpet plays that melody is so regal. The trumpet was Chuck Findley. That horn section was like "Wow"!
You also played with the guitarist Bill Frisell on some songs--
Yeah, Bill Frisell. That was a really joyful afternoon. We recorded four songs in a day. "Ugly Man," "Bitchenostrophy," another one called "The Eucalyptus Trail," which didn't get on the album. It was great to play with someone who understood my musical language. I would play it once, and he'd say, "Okay, I got it." Then we would do the track. He got it right away. And that was really gratifying. I had been struggling with "Ugly Man" with another ensemble. We tried really hard but it wasn't swinging. So it was pretty cool. You know when you got it.
The message in "Bitchenostrophy" is powerful. You say "life is long, but you go on and on…"
Those messages are all there, that death doesn't conquer, and you die, you continue, and we are all connected, and redemption is at hand, and you can change your life in a moment. For the better. I think that's the permeating thing throughout. The record's not a complaint. It's an affirmation. It's an offering of joy.
Yeah - even when you are talking about some dark subjects, you do it with a lot of joy. The song "Little Mysteries" does that, and it's great.
I started that before my daughter was born. You know I read a lot of spy novels. I was in France and four little gypsy children ran up to us, a little boy jumped in front of us and opened up a newspaper and said, "You want to buy the paper, lady? You want to buy the paper?" While he was in front of me, kids went through my pockets, and it was so fast, so professional, I was so impressed. Unfortunately, they did not get my wallet, which was in my pocket. And I always worried for them that they got beat very badly. [laughs] When they went back to their gypsy home. But that experience was so profound - to see criminal children, I think. I had never experienced organized small criminal children before. And it made for a good text.
So I wrote, fifteen years ago, [sings] "Gypsy boy came up to you and he tried to hide his fingers in your pocket." That's what I had. [Sings] "Oh, little mysteries. Little mysteries." That's what I had for fifteen years. Last summer I went, "I have to finish this." I was waiting because I didn't know if I wanted to write one specific mystery, or have a series of mysterious scenarios. I wanted to tie those together, or just leave them untied. So I decided to write about things that had bothered me.
Then the governor went down in Missouri, and John Ashcroft would have taken his place, and instead, the good people of Missouri said, "We'd rather have that guy's wife than you." So John Ashcroft then became the king of the Patriot Act, Attorney General.
Then just about a year ago, Paul Wellstone, the senator from Minnesota, went down. But this time, I noticed, just uncannily, his wife and daughter were with him. Same thing - a small plane went down. He was a really important person, and really the only outspoken critic of what was going on. And I do think terrible things go on. And I do think there's a lot of intrigue right in front of us. Things we could connect the dots to, but we will never be able to. So it's just a series of innuendoes. And then, finally, the blatant and obvious one, which isn't innuendo, was, oh, by the way, the election.
And I remember vividly, George Bush saying to the news cameras, "Well, I talked to my brother in Florida and he said he's taking care of it." And I said, "What do you mean he's taking care of it? Aren't we voting? What do you mean he's gonna deliver Florida? How can you say that?" Maybe that's how they talk to each other - "Yeah, I'm gonna get Florida for you." But I had never heard it. And so when he actually did deliver Florida, I started to understand.
People were exhausted from the seven years of accusations with Clinton. I didn't know why the Democrats rolled over. I didn't understand why nobody fought. Today you can't just take the election. But they said, "Okay you can have it." But I didn't know why.
So I guessed that finally I had fodder for real mysteries, and I was able to boldly write that song. And so as I talk about it, I guess there is a lot of political intrigue, but that's what's going on. You couldn't live in Nazi Germany and not write about what was going on. Not to necessarily make that parallel. But when really frightening or blatant things are happening to your country, if you don't speak out, you're serving it. You have to say something.
I've been apolitical. It's always been my opinion that you don't mix politics with music. Cause you're here to serve people's souls. Whatever you think politically is none of their business, and you have no business putting that in the relationship. Because ultimately I want Republicans and Democrats and little kids and old people and all kinds of people to be able to be served by the song.
But I could not not speak up. And it was basically because no one was speaking. Everybody was hedging what they said. They were being careful. I talked to a journalist I respect very much. He said, "Yes, yes, we should speak up, but responsibly." And I thought, "What are you talking about? Of course we're responsible. But why would you say that? What are you scared of? Why are you qualifying that we should speak out?" We don't have to be responsible. We should be irresponsible. Reckless, aggressive, attack, attack! Stop them. Because we're responsible, but they're not.
And so it just keeps moving further and further to the right. I never liked the far left at all. I found them to be totally exactly like the right. [laughs] The potential for a true fascist regime to take over is high. I think that some Americans want to see this as cyclical. And go, "Oh, you know, first the Right is in, then the Left is in, and it's no big deal." But that's not what I see going on. With the passing of the Patriot Act and the smug attitude of "We know what's best for you." And the fear of people who don't agree. It just makes me feel I can't not speak up.
And I know there are millions of people who feel this way. And I write a great record, and I talk about it, it's going to help open the door. I know that it will. But at the end of the day, it's still just a picture of me. So I'm not sure if it serves the record at all to say it's political. And yet I don't want to not say that, because I don't want to appear afraid. But if we're going to accurately say what it is, it's just a great record. I don't know what it's about, except it's about this place, at this time, the things I hear and feel.
The melody to "Little Mysteries" is wonderful - It's cool you've had it for fifteen years.
I have. Very Al Green. Initially I would have liked him to sing it.
You play a lot of guitar on this record.
Yeah. I'm playing a lot of wah-wah. I'm feeling really comfortable playing guitar. Onstage and in the studio.
Do you always play in standard tuning?
No. On "It Takes You There," I'm playing a 12-string with only 8 strings on it. I have it tuned to a triad, with three of the strings the same note. I used that same tuning on "Rodeo Girl" and other songs.
Did you play most of the guitars on the album?
Yeah, it's mostly me on the guitar. Mostly me.
Do you play with capos?
No. I never play with a capo. I think it's mathematically too difficult for me to reconfigure the neck-board [laughs] with a capo. It's easier for me. I have to keep the same amount of dots. [laughter]
Are there certain keys that are your favorites?
I don't know. I think there are certain keys you're hearing a lot with this project. The key of A manifested quite a bit with that one.
"Mink Coat" is a blues in A.
Yeah, I seem to be going to A a lot. I'm not sure why. But I don't think of keys first. The melody comes first. I hear these melodies in my head, so it's already writing itself in the key it wants to be in. Different keys probably evoke something different things emotionally, I guess.
Your songs have such strong melodies. Do you think people will always hunger for a good melody?
I think they hunger for a great song they can take home and sing. That's what they like. They want to hear a good song. I think one of the problems, as machines get better, is that they divert us from doing the first things. So we get really involved with the machines, and all the cool things we can do, but they're not starting with a great song.
One of the things I liked about the idea of Ghostyhead, which succeeded sometimes, is I liked the idea of using the wonderful chaotic things you can do with machines, but having a great song in the first place. I think that would be fun. That was kind of what was fun about Ram. That he did these little funny cut & paste things, in his way, but he had a cool melody.
The song "Sailor Boy" is beautiful.
Thank you. We started that also seven or eight years ago. I think I wrote it all except the last verse. I finished it up with David Kalish, which was a real move of trust for me to write with somebody. He remembered it, and said, "You really should do this song, this is a great song." And I just thought it was a stupid song. But he played it and I could see people really responded to it, so I gave it my all, and now I like it quite a bit. But that's a good thing about a producer or a friend, that they come and say, "That song you thought is really stupid is actually really good." [laughs]
"A Face In The Crowd," which is the last song, is one of those songs that just kept getting rewritten and rewritten. This one is one of those ones that the germ of it was old, and all that ended up was the refrain, "I want to be the one you love." There are about four new songs on the album, and then the rest of them, the germs of them were old.
These are germs you kept just in your head?
Just in my head. The music for "The Evening Of My Best Day" I wrote eight years ago. I had all the verses and the chorus. But I knew it wasn't finished. And finally, when I kept trying to record it, I finally found the last verse. Where I delivered the character to a happy and hopeful place. And that was one of those songs that was so hard to sing because that's coming right out of my heart. Some songs are just like that. I don't know if a listener could tell, but they're very, very personally important. You know what every line means, and it's hard to say it every time.
I remember I wrote a song called "A Stranger's Car." It was a song about a little child - obvious from the title what it's about. And I wanted to save the character. I had written it and killed the child, knew it was dead. But when I went to record the song, I could not bear to leave the child dead. It's funny, but in your brain, it's happening. I did not want to leave her there. I wanted to save her. But the song said, "No. That is what the song is." And I interceded. I said, "No, I'm saving her." Such that the song became unclear at the end.
Well, here's what I learned about that: That song was supposed to be about death. Because I needed to tell the story of ultimate sadness. And it took me all these years to learn that these songs know what they're doing. You can't interfere.
"Lap Dog" has some great acoustic and slide guitar playing on it.
It sure does. That's all David Kalish. He's a great blues guitar player and dobro playing.
Did you cut that one with you playing guitar at the same time?
No. On that one I played the tambourine. But I think we played together on "Mink Coat at The Bus Stop." I'm playing the reverb-y guitars, and David is blocking in the strong rhythm guitar.
When writing a song, do you think of what it should say before writing it? Do you lead it or follow it?
I'm following it. Definitely. I don't try to control it. The one thing I did with this album is keep the pace interesting. One of the things I did in the past is that if I liked a song, I put it on [the album]. This time I decided, even though I had great songs, if they brought the pace of the album down, they weren't going to get on the record. So quite a few songs were left behind that are very good. So that I could keep the pace of the record very strong. And I haven't done that in a long time - craft an album.
By pace, you mean keeping the energy throughout?
Yeah. You know, to make a perfect record. To keep you engaged.
You said that you would sit down each day with these songs, and work on them. Did you try to force the process somewhat?
Yeah, I did. Like in "Second Chance," looking really hard for the right line. Just the right line. It's like bringing it into focus. I wrote that over and over again till I got what I wanted.
I love the reference to "Countdown To Ecstasy" on that one.
Yeah, I was thinking of 9-11 and thought it was the end of the world. And in a way, I mean, that was the serious part - I lived in this house on Sunset Boulevard, a tiny little bungalow at a key intersection, where if you missed your turn, you drove into my front door. And people would stop in their cars, and their boomy bass would make our doors shake and our glass in our windows. And I just was thinking, "California… We're all just sitting here counting down to the end of the world." [laughter]
"Countdown To Ecstasy" is also the name of the very first Steely Dan album. Was it a reference to them?
Yeah, definitely. If I were to put my conscious mind into that, I would have said, "Hey, I'm not going to write that - that's a Steely Dan song." But that's all it wanted to be. [Sings] "Countdown to ecstasy…"
That one has great flute on it, too.
Yeah. The flute. That's part of that Sixties thing. Evoking a kind of beach bungalow carefree thing. I don't know why the flute does that for me, but it reminds me of The Association, or bossa novas.
It's such a powerful album. Do you think you'll do another one soon?
I hope I'll do one in about a year. Like I said, I had some pretty interesting songs still left. And I have a direction I think I want to go in. I don't want to build up a bunch of worry about the next one.
It seems now is a powerful time for you.
Yeah, I think it is. I hope great things happen.
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