|
Rickie Lee Jones:
The Bluerailroad Interview
page 3
And it's truly divinely inspired - in that you allowed these songs to come out, and they were inspired by God. It's inspired music about inspiration.
Yeah. To le it happen and not be afraid to say it happened. I was afraid a journalist might say, "So are you trying to say that you were possessed?" I'm just approaching it really honestly and gently and I haven't found any journalist to be - oh, just one, but he was an English professor - but I haven't found any journalists to want to be provocative.
How did it feel when the first song, "Nobody Knows My Name," essentially came through you?
It was a big moment. It was kind of a phenomenon. For the idea to manifest in the way you manifest the idea was pretty cool. [Laughs]
Was it edited at all?
No. That was it. It was live. Completely. We recorded it on the computer and we couldn't change it. We couldn't fix anything.
Did "Falling Up" come together in the same way?
Not exactly. That was in the second group of recordings. So we took about nine months off, and in that time I decided to make it my project. I got the money. Sold New West (the record company) with four songs. And they gave me money to finish. We liked the rawness of what we had done, and we wanted to record new songs that would have some continuity. So I hired Rob Schnapf to make the new tracks connect with that sound. We were concerned about going into the studio again.
The first couple of days we went to the Artist's Loft, where the rest of the work had been done. There was a track I had listened to before. And when I got there, I made it up. I didn't have an idea. But I wrote it down. I didn't just stand and do it. I wrote down the ideas and did it. But I waited till I got there to do it. Otherwise you would start to dramatically change the shape of what it was. So you have to trust that it will be given to you when you arrive. You'll do what you're supposed to do. And really believe it.
The only difference was that we were in the studio now, and we could record things more than once if we wanted to. "Tried To Be A Man," we recorded twice, kept the first one. "Nobody Knows My Name," recorded twice, kept the first one. The real power is always there the first time. Once you've done it, you go, "That time when I get there… next time I'm gonna.." Because then you start to prepare, and the performance is different.
"Tried To Be A Man" is a wonderful song. The track is kind of a driving blues, and you sing it in a whisper.
Well, I was playing it kind of like a Creedence Clearwater Revival thing. And then I overdubbed the vocal. Because I couldn't sing it and play it at the same time. So that was one of the few things I played on. That text I definitely had to write down.
Interesting you were thinking of Creedence, as that song is in E, and many of their songs are in E - sometimes a whole song just on E, without any other changes.
Oh yeah? For me a blues is probably always going to be in E. Maybe sometimes in A. I don't think I would put it in any other key. And I don't think I thought that until I just said it to you. Blues has to always be in E.
Dylan said he wrote almost all of the song for Nashville Skyline in F. On purpose, to give them all the same color. And many of these, such as "Nobody Knows My Name," are in F.
They're almost all in F or find their way back to B flat. All the first fret. "Falling Up" is also in F.
There's been so many comparisons between this and Velvet Underground. Also to that raw sound of Neil Young and Crazy Horse.
Yeah. Well, the musicians were definitely referencing Velvet Underground in their approach. But for me, live, when I give them room to play and it's kind of a jam band kind of thing, the thing that I evoke when I start playing the guitar seems to go back to that early Crazy Horse stuff. I think that's why it keeps coming up.
I find your part - the singing - more melodic than Velvet Underground.
Yeah, cause I am not a fan of Velvet Underground. But they were an influence on the tracks. And I think what I do on top of that is kind of cool.
Lee: There is that droning thing, like VU. Two guitars, bass and drums. But Rickie overlaid that with gorgeous melodies.
Were you writing any songs in the period between your last album [The Evening of My Best Day] and this one?
[Softly] No.
Is that unusual for you - are you always writing, or just in spurts?
Spurts.
Before you started this, did you have any idea about what you would do next?
When I did The Evening of My Best Day, I thought I was done.
Done?
Yeah.
Why?
I just thought I was done. People weren't coming to the shows anymore. The feeling when I would record was heavy. And labored. I didn't seem to find a point of inspiration that was undeniable in the center of any song I wrote. "Ugly Man" was a really good song. But it just seemed like I had been in a long train of good, not bad, pretty good. And I just didn't belong there. I belong where everything is just incredible. Every song is a movie. Or a short story. That warrants your attention. That heals you. Takes you places. It just wasn't happening for me. I'd have a good idea, but, for me, I just wasn't bringing them to fruition. And I was doing my best. So I just thought it was over for me.
So The Evening of My Best Day was titled that. And I felt like that that record also was the end of everything that came before it. And so once it was done, all that life was done. And I didn't really know what would happen next. And that's why walking in to do this maybe was so free. Because it wasn't mine. It was his. [Points to Lee.] And I could find my way to new points. Because it wasn't attached to me.
I loved many of the songs on Evening. Especially "Little Mysteries," which is a great song.
I just don't think I got enough love for my work. I didn't get any love. I had bad managers, bad business, bad tour. I really got fucked really badly. And my music reflects all of that. So I started to think it was over for me. And that's what starts happening inside. The tree starts to die.
I understand how important your connection is to your audience. I've seen you at shows say to the crowd, "Look, if you're not giving to me, I can't give to you." The connection has always been vital for you.
And it still is. I still do that. I did a show in Minneapolis the other day and we were giving a great show, but they weren't giving anything back. I did the show and left. I think I said that to them. [Laughs] I said, "That's the best we have. If it's not reaching you, then it's not. Thank you." And I left. Because I don't want to hurt them. Maybe some people are getting it. But as the shape of an audience, they're not giving anything back. So we begin to feel like funny little monkeys standing there. Because it's a performance. And they're performing as much as me. And every other performance has been electrifying. They're engaged. It's not like they're yelling stuff or anything like that. It's just that we feel them. They're taking us. The only way they can show us is by clapping. But it's a feeling. We just fill up with this feeling, and we know they're getting it. And they want us to go there.
A lot of songwriters judge their success according to the marketplace. If an album doesn't sell well, they think it's their failure. Do you look at it that way? Do you think an album is not as good if it doesn't sell well?
I think I'm not as good. Yeah. You can't not feel that way. Before the record comes out you think it's the greatest thing you've done, it's as great as anything you've done. But if you put it out there and nobody even looks at it, you go bad! [Laughs] Bad record! You don't love it.
Lee Cantelon: But then you're kind of hijacked by the industry. You're being hijacked by that response. You know in your heart when you have written a good song.
But you're inside of an industry, and if that's the way the industry measures success, it's hard for artists to separate themselves from that.
Lee: Well, true, but you're sort of kidnapped by that. Because if you look at "Tree On Allenford," you've got to say, 'Dang, that's a pretty good song.'
Rickie Lee: Beautiful song. And it's not easy for me to believe I wrote that.
It's frustrating for me to see people like you, or like Joni Mitchell - some of our greatest songwriters - feel they aren't great based on commercial success. Because what does get commercially embraced is often not the best work.
And I know that, but it's not just the sales. It's a sense of being loved or respected at that moment in my career. Because it's threefold - if it's happening with sales, it's happening with ticket-sales. And then it's happening with my sense of respect and understanding of my career among the people. And then faith in me in the marketplace. And so all of those things, if they're low ebb, then I'm gonna feel bad.
One thing Joni Mitchell never suffers from - maybe she doesn't see it - but I always read her name in deference. And she's at the top of the pyramid. Rightfully or not rightfully so, that's how she's placed. So whatever's happening to her in sales, I feel bad that she can't celebrate that she has this regard. She should walk down the street feeling pretty good about that. And I don't think she gives herself that joy.
But I feel the same about you. So many people I know - musicians and non-musicians - consider you a goddess. And all your albums - whether it's Pirates or Flying Cowboys, they all exist on the same plane. They're not dusty artifacts on the shelf.
Lee: Yeah, they're always relevant.
Rickie Lee: I'm able to experience that a little bit more now than I was four or five years ago. But five years ago I was feeling bad. There were a lot of personal things that were making life really hard.
Lee: You don't want those personal things to penetrate your life, but those day to day things do touch you -
Rickie Lee: Because your work is the fruition of your day to day life. It's the God part of your day to day life. That's why you're seeking something divine and eternal. But it comes out of the joy and drama of your day to day life. And if your day to day life overtakes you and eats you [Laughs], how do you love your work? Nobody is immune, whether it's fucking Suzanne Vega or everyone who is similar to me is getting lots of blue ribbons, but I'm being forgotten, I can't help but start to feel that my time is up. That's just what starts to happen internally. Something has happened to me, and I don't know if it happened in the course of making this record, or if at the end of The Evening of my Best Day, if that happened in order to make this happen, but something wonderful is happening now. As if everything has come full circle.
Lee: That's wonderful, isn't it? That's wonderful.
Rickie Lee: I have this friend who came up to me during rehearsal, and he sang to me [sings], "We'll be back in the high life again. All the doors that once were closed will open up and let us in." And he looked in my eyes and sang that to me. And that's just how it feels. So I look lovingly at the broken heart I had a few years ago, but I feel in a point of power, of love and hope. And I just think it's gonna keep opening up. It has to do with the record, but it might all have to do with… evolution.
When you look back on your own albums, do you still judge them based on how much each sold, or do you recognize the good songs?
I think that phenomenon that I was describing happened more in the last few years. With my last album in particular. Because I had managers that betrayed me. I had a tour that went badly and cost me $150,000. I went broke. It was devastating. And I had such hopes for the touring. I took eleven people out on the stage. I had violinists. I really had faith that somehow something great would come. And I guess something did come, it just didn't come then. It took awhile for it to get here. That was so disastrous financially.
So your question is interesting, because I know I make great work. But I know it when I perform it. If you ask me about the records, I would probably go, "I'm not sure if they're good records." And that's probably because people quit buying them. So just based on that, if nobody wants to buy it, maybe it's not… great. Because I always felt that it didn't matter if people buy it. But I don't know if that's true. Because I think we make art for the people… It's obvious I'm not gonna have a mass appeal. But if you're a filmmaker and you make these kind of goofball films, but they're wonderful and people are gonna remember them, well, if even those people quit coming, you might start to go, "Maybe I'm not a really good filmmaker after all." But that probably only happens if other things are beating you down as well.
Your career is so unusual - especially in the context of today's record industry - in that your debut album was so great, with "Chuck E.'s in Love," "Night Train," "Young Blood," "Company," and "Last Chance Texaco." All amazing songs. And then you took time and came back with Pirates, which is a masterpiece, one of the best albums of all time. Whereas it's often unusual for songwriters to do a sophomore album that exceeds the quality of the debut. After the debut, did Warner Brothers urge you to repeat yourself, to make another song like "Chuck E.'s In Love"?
No, no, not with the second record. That kind of thinking didn't happen until I left Warner Brothers. I don't think it wasn't that they didn't want to have a success, but they knew that success with that record was amazing. You know, you can only debut once. And they knew that. It was like the Beatles. The thing was to keep up some kind of personality-driven interest. Because people loved the idea of me as much as the records. And without the idea of me being sold, there's just the record. And they needed me. People liked the idea of me. Which I totally rejected. I just went, "I don't want to be sold. I don't like this. I'm not comfortable with the beret. I'm not comfortable with selling a persona. If you want to buy my record, you can buy it. But I'm bowing out." Which was a mistake. It's show-business. And people come to music through a person that they identify with. They place a lot of meaning on it. It doesn't have to be you. You let them have what they have. That's their's.
That took a lifetime to understand. And it took a lifetime of people coming to me, and crying when they meet me, and coming year after year. And it took a long time for me to understand that this was their gift, it had nothing to do with me. It's not my place to take it from them. And what an honor. What a bizarre, wonderful job. What an incredible job. I get to make this music. But in return, I needed to allow people to invest their hearts and souls, and stay tough, and not be absorbed with myself. And to let that go, and give that back to them. I'm really happy that I know that. That's a part of my job. My job isn't just writing songs. Or I'd just be a songwriter. My job is performing them.
And you're an amazing performer -
I like it. I like it.
If you weren't a songwriter, you could have had a career as a vocalist.
Or an actor, maybe. Because I like to be onstage.
Did you choose "Chuck E" to be the single from your first album?
They chose it. But I think I probably wanted it. That wasn't my job, so I really can't remember. But I probably thought it was cool as a single, because it was so offbeat. And they were very cool. They chose the most offbeat, unusual track on the record as the single.
It's the only hit single ever to rhyme 'Pantages' with 'contagious'.
Absolutely. [Laughter]
A good Hollywood rhyme. After that was such a big hit, did you personally have any thought about wanting to do that kind of song again?
No.
(continued ...)
Top
| Back
<
| page 1
| page 2
| page 3
| page 4
| page 5
| >
|
